“Money is tight, so we’re going to have to reprioritise” – First Minister’s ‘Listening Tour’ hears local priorities

Wales’ new first minister stopped off in Wrexham yesterday afternoon (Monday 2 September) as part of her ‘Listening Tour’ across the country.

Eluned Morgan MS, who was elected unopposed after Vaughan Gething MS was forced to stand down, has been visiting towns and cities across Wales to hear from local residents and businesses.

Yesterday afternoon Ms Morgan arrived in Wrexham after spending time in Mold to hear what residents in Flintshire had to say.

Walking through Ty Pawb, Ms Morgan approached shoppers and those enjoying a meal in the food court at random to introduce herself and to get feedback on Welsh Government policies – good and bad.

The visit was unannounced with those in the arts and market facility, which was funded with Welsh Government money, surprised to see the first minister approach them on a dreary Monday afternoon.

Ms Morgan explained that this was the point of her ‘Listening Tour’ – to get feedback and honest opinions from members of the public without any forewarning.

Accompanied by Wrexham’s MS, Lesley Griffiths, the pair spoke to people of all ages – including pensioners and young families – along with several of the business owners in Ty Pawb.

They heard politely put concerns about the rising cost of living, the UK Government’s decision to means test the Winter Fuel Payment for pensioners, health and of course the 20mph policy.

There was also praise from some about the introduction of Universal Free School Meals and calls for it to be further expanded to secondary school pupils.

After around 45 minutes of the First Minister roaming around the food court we grabbed a few minutes with the First Minister and asked her about her trip to Wrexham, below is what she told us…

EM: It has been really interesting, because I think Wrexham has been really put on a map in recent years, and I think everybody’s interested in knowing about Wrexham now, and it’s been fascinating.

They have had a push from from the city culture, the football club has taken off, there’s a real buzz about it, and a real feeling of hope here.

Perhaps heading off some criticism of the ‘listening tour’ with no scheduled events she added, “It has been interesting just listening to some people here today,  because that’s the idea here, to come and listen to what the public have to say, and not a self selecting group. If you organise an event often the people who come and tell you are very often people who have a very clear agenda. You know, it might be a very valid agenda, but part of what I’m interested in is to hear from people who usually you don’t hear from, who may not make a noise or make a fuss. Randomly turning up at places and listening to people has worked really effectively throughout Wales.

A few people seemed quite surprised to see the First Minister pop up at their table and ask ‘What are the Welsh Government doing well, or badly?’, and we asked if politicians regardless of party, should be doing more of this type of engagement.

EM: Well, don’t forget, we do it a lot at election times, and we’ve just been through an election and have been doing this for weeks on end before the General Election. We go out every election, local government, Senedd, General.

So it is not like we don’t listen we are doing it quite a lot. I guess what is different here is I am going into town centres and trying to hear what whoever is around has to say rather than knocking on doors. I think that’s quite a different method of trying to collect information.

A similar visit to Pontypridd had been reported in glowing terms, with it noted that the visit was not a “choreographed visit”. The one we observed was similarly ad hoc, with the First Minister hopping out of the Welsh Government Volvo and not being chaperoned to any specific person or group. We asked if this was a genuine new way of working, or just good PR.

EM: I’ve been in office for three weeks or so. The key for me is I have got to be myself, and I have got to be who I am, and this is who I am. I’m someone who’s really comfortable on the street, listening to people, talking to people, that’s who I am. So I want to get out and do as much of this as I can.

I thought it was really important to do it now when I was first elected, because I didn’t go through the traditional selection process, and I didn’t set out a clear agenda of what I’m going to do. So I thought, why not turn it on its head and use that as an opportunity to find out what the people want me to do and use that as a platform to actually build a kind of government programme?”

We asked if this meant it was a reverse manifesto.

EM: Exactly. So rather than me setting up the manifesto, get the public to set it.

With the people apparently setting the agenda we asked what the learning was from the ‘listening’ exercise and the core of the ‘manifesto’.

EM: It is early days, and I’m still doing this exercise throughout Wales. There are some themes that are coming up very regularly. Obviously, the NHS is coming up a lot, and some of that is about waiting lists – obviously we’re aware of that.

But you know, when you probe on access, and ask people ‘what’s your personal experience?’ Their personal experience is okay. So that happens quite a lot.

20mph, we can’t duck that. I think people are concerned about that still, so obviously we’re going to have to think carefully about what we do around that.

It’s really interesting today we’re hearing a lot of support for the free school meals. So making sure that that’s rolled out throughout Wales, I think that’s important.

Making sure that people who work in the public service, like our nurses, are well supported and they’re well rewarded for what they do. So things like that, I think people are interested in because that’s how you keep them in their jobs. So there’s a few themes that are coming out. Women’s Health is another one that is mentioned a lot.

As the topic came up we related a range of first hand accounts of long waiting times for endometriosis or polycystic ovaries diagnosis let alone treatment. We asked what Welsh Government is doing to help with speedier diagnosis.

EM: I’m really interested in going back now and giving some thought to this. I do think we could probably make a case for getting specific clinics for women’s gynaecological issues. I think there’s lots of young women with period pains and things that they suffer, and they never go to an expert.

I just think if we could provide a bit more expertise, we’ve already had a lot more endometriosis nurses, but actually it is a huge number who suffer from endometriosis, so obviously we need to look at it – it’s quite hard to diagnose as well.

That’s why it takes such a long time to diagnose. So I think getting some expertise into that space is quite important. I think that’s something I’d like to explore.”

New clinics, health expertise sound wonderful so we asked if there was money to do all of that with a UK Labour Government. We also noted that historically Welsh Labour would point a finger of blame to Conservative UK Government in Westminster – who in turn would point it back to a former UK Labour Government. We asked if that blame cycle would now repeat.

EM: We are now in a situation where we can work with the UK Labour Government, and already it’s it’s been transformational. It’s been six weeks, and everything has changed.

The relationships are very, very different from anything we’ve seen in the past 14 years. So I think there’s real opportunity for us to work together.

The things that they can learn from us, there are things that we can learn from them. I am really keen to do that, but you’re right, the money is tight, so we’re going to have to reprioritise.

That’s what I’m interested in knowing through this listening exercise, I can find out what people’s priorities are, then clearly you then have to, if you want to fix that, you’ll have to de prioritise other things. One of the toughest jobs in politics is about prioritisation. That’s what Nye Bevan said, wasn’t it?

‘The language of priorities is the religion of Socialism’.

On the topic of priorities we asked if the millions on the 20MPH rollout, and likely millions on a roll back, plus possible policies on meal deals and sugary drink refills were luxury policies rather than priorities in such a tight economic context where public services – such as teachers jobs – need cash.

EM: There are some things in government you can do that don’t cost money, right? Legislation or regulation, for example, they’re not big money items, but there are things that, if you don’t regulate, will cost the government money.

So for example, 60% of people in Wales are overweight or obese. Now there’s a consequence to that, and it hits directly on the NHS, which means the taxpayers have got to pick up the bill. So it is really difficult.

We banned smoking in public places and its actually made a big difference. People don’t like it initially, but actually, it’s going to save the public a hell of a lot of money.

So the question is, how far do you go with that? On refills, you know you are pouring sugar down kid’s throats. What message are we sending here? So we have got to get that balance right, and it’s got to be a balance.

On refills for example, that’s something they’ve already legislated for that in England, so we’re kind of behind what they’re doing in England there.

I do think we have got to try and help support people to make the right decisions, but how far do you go with that? Because people don’t like you interfering too much in their lives.”

Wrexham.com readers will be aware of our ongoing council coverage, and in recent years that has been dominated by local authority budget cuts. Initially lots of those were not specifically public facing or in specific niches, however education cuts and others have become more widely felt across Wrexham. We asked if there was any hope for council budgets in Wales on future settlements.

EM: A lot of this depends on what we get from UK Government. You will have heard the warnings as we have.

We pointed out that the First Minister had met the Prime Minister very recently who may know that answer, and was there any indications that she could share.

EM: You will have heard the warnings he gave last week on the budget, and they’re not sounding terribly positive if we’re honest. But, if you look at the way we’ve managed to support local government in Wales compared to the slashes that they’ve made in England, we’re in a much better place.

But, you’re right, there is no question about it, they’re struggling. Part of the reason for that is because the cost of care is going up massively.

So what we got now is the beginning of the baby boomers getting old. You need to pay for them. You need to support them, and all of that means costs are going up for councils, and they have to provide that service. It’s not a discussion. They have to provide it.

So I’ve got a lot of empathy for their situation, and I think at some point we are going to have to bite the bullet on what we do about paying for care.

We asked on council budgets if the First Minister could foresee local authorities reverting to just providing statutory services – a warning that has been made several times by political leaders on Wrexham Council.

EM: I don’t think any of us want to get to that space, particularly because the things that give people hope and keep people alive are things like the cultural events, sporting events and all of those things that that make a place like Wrexham special – like this place we’re in now.

All of these things are fundamental to place, and people identify locally before they identify nationally. So we have got to try and support them where we can.

Referencing some FOI data (Nearly 70,000 ambulance hours lost to patient handover delays at Wrexham Maelor Hospital in three years), and other health service and Board issues locally, we asked what the answer was, and if anything will tangibly change under her First Ministership.

EM: Some of that answer is we have got to fix the care system. Part of the problem is you have got too many people in hospital who shouldn’t be there, who are ready to be discharged, and they can’t be discharged because there’s no support from the community.

That’s really difficult because we don’t have enough care workers in the community, so at some point we’re going to have to address that issue.

The problem is, you need a lot of money to address that issue. We’ve already, in Wales, introduced the real living wage to make sure that care workers are paid more than they are elsewhere in the UK.

But, it’s a real challenge, because they can still go to different places to do a different job. At some point we’re going to have to address that issue, particularly with an aging population.

Ideally, I would like that issue to be addressed with the UK Government, but if they don’t move, we might have to do something separately.”

With time ticking on a huge list remaining, we wrapped up by asking if due to being the first female First Minister, if she thought she would face more or different scrutiny and challenge.

EM: I don’t know yet, but we’ll see. I do think it’ll be a different dynamic. I hope it’ll be a different dynamic. You know, not all women are the same either? I don’t represent all women, but what will be interesting is the way people respond to me because I’m a woman, and whether they will be more aggressive or less aggressive.

I’ve yet to see – we haven’t been back in the Senedd yet, so that’ll be interesting to see in the first couple of weeks back!